&Charge Just Raised Seed Funding to Help Online Shoppers Fight Global Warming


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We learned in our projects that charging electric cars is challenging for B2B and B2C customers Simon Vogt, Co-Founder and CSO &ChargeOur Sponsor Invest-in-Hessen 

This show was made possible by Hessen Trade and Invest with their brand Invest-in-Hessen. You can learn more about them here (https://www.invest-in-hessen.com/). We also run a dedicated sub-podcast with all interviews and news in cooperation with them. Find it all here: https://anchor.fm/techstartupsgermany

Charging can still be challenging for the EV driver. Simon Vogt, Co-Founder and CSO &ChargeThe Founder 

Simon Vogt (https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-vogt-a9a07931/), Co-Founder and Chief Sales Officer of Frankfurt-based startup &Charge is our guest today. They just raised seed funding to help online shoppers offset their climate impact and reward them with points e.g., for charging electric cars or using e-scooters.

Simon has collected already some experience in mobility. He worked in emobility projects of BMW, been with Porsche Consulting and finally been the coordinator for e-services for Porsche’s model Taycan.

Charging is more than refueling. You have time. Simon Vogt, Co-Founder and CSO &ChargeThe Startup 

The founding team realized that charging is different from refueling, so the team behind &Charge (https://and-charge.com/#/) realized that the charging EV owner has time on his or her hands. So, &Charge started connecting charging with eCommerce, so an online buyer gets rewards points for recharging their EV or using an e-scooter or similar stuff. Currently, they are covering 95% of the German eCommerce market with partnerships.

 We help our customers to decrease the price of re-charging and the total costs of ownership. Simon Vogt, Co-Founder and CSO &ChargeVenture Capital Funding 

They just raised a seven-digit seed round (https://buff.ly/3oW9C1m) but will surely look soon at a Series A funding round. Amongst their investors are the corporate venture capital arm of energy company Helen, called Helen Ventures and Porsche Ventures.

I could be considered a pioneer or dinosaur of emobility, I stared with it 10 years ago. Simon Vogt, Co-Founder and CSO &Charge 

Find all links and show notes here: https://www.startuprad.io/blog/charge-just-raised-seed-funding-to-help-online-shoppers-fight-global-warming/

Welcome to start up brand that I own, your podcast and Youtube blog covering the German startup scene with News, interviews and live events alone. Welcome everybody. This is Joe From Start Operator I. Oh, you start up podcast and you do block from Germany. Today I have another guest here with me, Simon, hey hid in, hey joe, nice to meet you. Great to have me here. I'm quite excited and let's take it off. Yeah, totally my pleasure. We may add that you are co founder of the of the company end charge, which actually is written with an m percent, so the the the end sign that you usually see in financial services companies and charge. We also may add that this interview is with in our series with invest in Hassan. So our enabler is invest in Hassan, back by Hassant, trade and invest. Thank you very much for the support. We are talking. We later get to this, because you just recently been in the news for raising seat financing round. We already discussed. It's something like an extended sea ground or a seat plus, but notetheless, let's talk a little bit about you here. I have been looking at your linkedin profile and, as always, everybody who would like to reach out go down here in the show notes. There is a link either to our blog post or directly to your linkedin profile. Main reason behind this is for all the audio podcasts and video podcasts, there is a limit on the number of characters we could put there, so we put everything in a plot post. You have been working with a lot of interesting companies, including, but not limited to BMW, Porsche Consulting, and you've been within porsher coordinator for e services for one of their SUV's. So Kell us a little bit what awesome stuff you've been doing there. Quite frank, it's the mobility. No, not, of course. What what? Okay, next question, just even, but didn't know. No, of course. I'd like to deliberate on that, of course. So yeah, quite interesting because I'm I'm starting this emobility see, ten years ago. So I'm let me say, if you if you say a little bit in that way, I could be kind of a dinosaur or kind of pioneer that game. And I come to immobility accidentally, to become the honest, after I finished my studies there was a nice chance with a bmw you could work with kind of wall boxes, private charging. I was like, okay, what is private charging? Never heard about that, I'm yeah, let me say I studied business administration, so I wasn't really in touch with charging and all the technical things, but it was the right decision that ten years ago ready to go into the debt direction and I was three years part of this BMWI project, former names, was, or were basically a project I and they were pretty much focusing on this mobility topic and they really thought it, let me say, on a green field, and they offered the car and they offered a couple of other services. That charging and immobility is going to be hassle free and CIS for the EVA J others. And one part is home charging, offering a wall box, and that was my job as a proper manager, to kind of define the requirements and be kind of it say. They were presentive into the markets. So I was part of the of the HQ for what box sharing or what box, basic...

...wall boxes? And after that, after three years, I would I was, let me say, looking for another thrill in life and therefore consultancy was the right answer and I moved to the portal consultancy and interestingly, I was assigned to project within the Porsche Headquarters to cut and the task was to find the business model out of charging, and that was really the way into the headquarter, basically where afterwards end up. And and there I met my current co founders, basically oigen Ma Tiers. Within this project and as a consultant, we were pretty much into deep into charging. What is charging about, and we quite kind of define a business model for for Porsche. And then I got the chance to jump dirty into portion the headquarter and work on this project, which I designed kind of on powerpoint slides being a consultant, and then I got the chance, with with my cofounders, organ my tiers, to bring this into reality. So we build kind of the first digital charging service with the Porsche Ecosystems for Porsche and for the Porsche Tai Khan, the first better elective faving from Porsche. And during that time we gained a lot of experiences. What, yeah, what does it mean to charge a car and what does it mean to go from icee so combustion engine cars, to electric cars on both sides? So so what does it mean for the players of so the partners to be to be partners of the value chain? And so they deal with kill what hours. It's hard to make margin out of it. It's just it's a kind of race to the button. It's just killed what ours. It's nothing like super plus or super plus plus, you know what I mean. It's just like Killo ours and all the other inside we learned that charging from a user perspective is kind of quite expenses because you have a complex ecosystem and margin at up charging is based on kind of interest, insufficient data quality to Summ it up. Charging is kind of a challenge for B to B and for B to see, and that both kind of our chance to maybe there's room for a nice smart text startup that could bring benefits to the Batwa partners and bring nice values to the BTC too. So to ev drabs that both. Let me say the initial spark two thousand and eighteen, so about three years ago. There was over a lot of information, but let us first put this little bit into perspective. BMWI models are the all electric models of BMW. So you've been working there. And the charging meaning you basically, if you have a hybrid or an all electric car, you can charge it at home and you just plug it up in Germany. That could mean you either have the normal voltage of I think two on a two to forty volts right now, all you can have a little bit bigger outlet that allows you to charge faster. One of my family members once calculated he has an all electric car and if he doesn't charge at work, it takes something like thirty six hours, four the two hundred forty volts to completely charge his car. So that that it's basically the problem, the problem area we are talking about. Plus, there is right now not really a standardization in terms of charging, so that means you cannot go to any charging station like a gasoline and can just plug it in. Basically you always have to have that APP they have different prices. The other yeah, the yeah, that, so there's always a problem, like it used to be in the early times of the combustion engine car. I would assue him. Yeah, so totally agree. Basically, of course things got better in the lasting years. Totally totally. I think this is this this we need to somewhat emphasize. Things got better, of course, but if becomes to home charging,...

...there are kind of possibilities and solutions. If you if you go for a warbox, so then you can charge up to eleven or twenty two kw killer what. So this means that you can of course decrease the charging time for normal best up to, let me say, six to eight hours, or even less, rights let me say three to six hours. So during the night charge that's quite comfortable. So if you have a charge at home possibility, you are the lucky guy. And I think we come to the point letter, because I don't have a Frankfurt and this would be somehow where I like to raise the hand. But this is something as we would take a later on. You know the other inside. You're totally right, because I think maybe a couple of steps back. Charging is a little bit like the early beginnings of telecommunication and roaming. Is is kind of the idea, like if if you go and cross borders with your better electric vehicles, it could get challenging because you struggle with which APP and card, because it's not possible normally to just throwing your coins. Yeah, like like four guests for forgatherly, but it's getting better and there of course APPS Pan European APPS, but it's still something that is not let me say then, it's based on a couple of back ends, and back ends to back end. So it's it's challenging for the for the eavy driver, but he or she they don't need to know the struggles behind all the backage. You just want to they go. They come from from combustion engine to better elect the cars and they would like to have the same experience. They would like to go seemless a to be right. But the the the ecosystem is how it is and it seems that it's getting more complex in the future, and so we really need to solve a couple of issues, and one issue is the price point and the other big issue is really data quality, and that's our war, really core, focusing on data quality, focusing on the price point by kind of rewards programs, to put in another but I think we come to the points in this discussion. We we will come to the point, because right now we are at the point of the interview. Where are you? Co founded and charge? In January two thousand and twenty you got officially reduced in the Hamness sigist and why then? We already more or less clear the question. How you meet you co founders and basically a Dev was, I assume, a pretty unfortunate time for founding a company, because in February Germany got hit by the coronavirus. Tell us a little bit about the founding story. Yeah, the coronavirus. It's been two years, right, so it's been a while. Yeah. So, of course you never know what happened in the world. And I can remember in Genuary, twenty twenty, I was visiting the hint a lot of things, that text festival and beat a felt where I used to us to, used to do my apprenticeship couple of years ago, and and we were just talking, okay, there's something ill going in China and yeah, but it's something basically maybe in China that it should yeah, let's see. And then I think a couple of weeks later we had this first of course, incidents near the discussion bout lockdowns and yeah, I'm to be completely honest, I think we were quite lucky because we are basically attacked company and the first use case we started with was at that time being a revolts program, is sustainable Rewolt, a loyalty program, and we had kind of basically one percent e commerce on board. So that was the value chain. That is still part of our value chain in the DNA and so we saw that, after closing down on the the bricks and motor stores, of course, that we're the steady, steady revenue and even increasing revenue in in ECOMMORE. So I think that that was the lucky punch, but I think I can, I can share in here transparently. Of course, we were discussing at that time and prior to that time, and that what was...

...again part of the funding story, that charging is like more than refueling, right it? If you charge your car, you have time. Yeah, so you can do something. And why not connecting like bricks and motor places with charting stations? So this is again another thing that is quite induestring and luckily we haven't focused that hard prior to the pandemic of that. So this would have been quite as general time. So luckily we gone through it quite quite well. To become videouced, we could rely on the on the ECOMMERCE part, and so therefore it was ocase. Of course, it's strange working from home by starting a new company. You like to have cost spend time with the teammates and thinking about new things experiments. But I thinks we we we had to the freedom to get used to it working from home. We just need our laptops. So I think, therefore, it was good to just found something that is based on code lines. So nothing really in in bricks and motor right. So therefore it was it was okay, Sia, it's it was okay, Siah. Now we get a little bit too in what end charge is, and my understanding is you guys are an online chopping APP that rewards uses with energy for driving. I've heard another interview. We claimed ninety five percent coverage of German online stories, and my question is you first, of course, can you explain a little bit more extensive what you guys are actually doing? Did you improved coverage of the online stores in the meantime? And my understanding is you guys work, for example, would liver, lever, Rando, Talando and deliver here. Are there an other recognizable names? Sorry, lots of questions. First, tell us what do you guys are actually doing? Yes, actually, and that's that's that's a nice question. I love it because it's really it's really the the the startup, Joarney. You have a first idea and then, of course, you you have a life. You get your first user feedback, you see where the turnover is about, and I think quite important for startup is two things. First of all, you need to solve real pain points, and this made really, really pain points. And the second thing is, out of that, define a pronol service that could be scaled and and best way could be skates, your white or globally. So I think we come to the points. And the first pain point we were about to solve is the is high charging price. So kind of find a way to decrease the cost for charging and and to put it more easy, the total cost of ownership so the normal consumer can basic compare. This is my bill for having an combustion engine car and this is my bill for having a beast, and the best bill should be should be lower than for the IC car. I think then we have a be all of the players and ecosystem made a good job, but this is still not the case. Right is, especially if it comes to public charging. Charging is quite expensive. Just to give an example, you can end up by one Europe or kill about hour and the average consumptions twenty kids what hours. So it's twenty Europe. A one hundred could be of course there is. It's not hard black and white, but charging is challenging. So the first study was, okay, kind of bonus program and all of us knows payback. It's and and force. What's quite nice because it's not rocket science and easy to understand. So we would not start with a fancy platform that nobody in the stands and rebot program nobody a bit. Everybody knows right. So you every bakery has a printed card, the stamp card where can collect your stamps and points and payback has, I think, couple of ten million uses here in Germany. So we thought, okay, let's be the sustainable payback or my a more basically, and the idea was we are connected to a couple of online shops in Germany. We have got this.

More than nine hund ninety five percent, like I here, is on board booking, so we have all the relevant players. Otto is something that works very nicely and with every purchase our users can collect bonus points. We named them kilometer and those can be redeemed for free public charging. That's the first proposition we have on the platform and redacting. Regarding the question could be increased in number, I think it's kind of steady because now we are in the process, but we really like to kind of define and select which partner fits to our vision being a sustainable company. That's quite important for us and it's always a challenge there. So this is something where we currently focusing on. Where to get those sustainable online shops. How could we extend the service to brick and mortar, to maybe smaller companies, to support those? And that's the very first pillow. And then what we are actually doing is exactly now I would answering. We are the only European platform that combines smart user engagement with value added services. What does that mean? So we have this reward mechanism where we can reward behavior. One behavior is shopping, but another behavior could be providing data, and that's, let me say, the clue, and I would compare ourselves with four square. Four spare currently provides basically data points to air being B to Chip Advisor. So it's not google. Basically it's four square. Nobody, I think, knows force care really and they have a bee to see APP where they ask for data and they gave me fight. You can increase in your levels, you can collect batches points and we do kind of the same for ev charging. So our users. They take pictures of charting stations, they rate charting stations, they provide attributes. Is it safe? What about illumination? What about is it possible to charge there for this? Enable people? So if we are becoming the platform with the most accurate Dator, and we gave me FY the collection of the data with the EV drivers by rewarding their activities, and they were mixing those two words of reboarding and data, and you can say user engagement on a higher level and value added service, because we can sell, resell those data to all those players in the ecosystem and they can enrich their services and APPS. You get vouchers for electric charging for your vehicle. What if you don't own the vehicle or outcombustion engine? So if you know, if you're part of our platform, where your own in combustions you you, you say, or it could be could be the case. I'm not quite I think most of our the majority of the users, they are they already have an evy or they go for right they ordered and maybe they're still in in combustion engine. All the worlds like me say that way and they already start collecting. That's quite instant to see those. So maybe they ordered and it takes a couple of months under the car is getting delivered and they already starting the arm to collect kilometers and it's cool. I'm getting familiar with it. I think we don't have the typical coill combustion engine users on the platform, to be completely honest. So I think for those guys we don't have a strong proposition. Maybe they some are industries in maybe Gayi fi with us a little bit, but our focus would be really the eavy drivers out there and currently focusing on Europe, the EV drivers in Europe. My understanding is you could also redeem the points, for example for right with an ease scooter right. Yes, and this is something that we tried a lot in the last year. So this is this is part of our DNA and I think you, Joe and and the audience. No, definitely like Eric Reef, lean start up. So it's all about really small hypothesis testing experiments and we were experimenting a bit with Micro Mobility, scooter, right, hailing, right sharing such. Maybe it could be nice that users can redeem points for for those micro mobility use cases as well, and this is something we kicked off last year, I think in June and July, and we see that it's could be a...

...nice addition to the use case. But the main use case is really points for free charging. But of course there are some using that's good indistant. We have does power uses. They collect thousands of points and they won't have the chance, I think, in their life to redeem those points for charging. Yeah, it's quite we have those. We have those really and I like those. We have a power user, I think three weeks ago he just wrote US and said okay, I think he directed right to Oigen the the the our core funder my Calfunda, like Okay Oi, I just charge on my e bike. I'm ready to go and read you eighty stations for you today. And he gets those bonus points for the reviews and are but but this is something and especially if the system rely on those pouses. Of course, in the markets they are quiet loyal with you. They have a high retention, they high engagement and they collect points for charging. But of course there could be some cases whether it's okay, maybe I take a scooter or take an ugle green or such, how we use but who are actually clients? What is Your Business? Model. How you gonna make money? Because my understanding as you work with retake clients, like in the shopping, in the charging, but you also work with copper customers, as you said, currently shifting to four square for e car drivers, maybe also eat bike drivers. Is Is that that directing? You guys are going right now? That's that's the direction. So it's really I think e bytes could be maybe a side use case. The really, let me say they're the clear growth path for us is being that that fourth quay with a strong B to see this, this community, the strong use engagement and offering those valueated services be to be and the clients we can really come from. The the two pillars we have at a charge is online shopping or shop things. So these are retail partners like if you said, like said Otto booking, the Lando. So they are. We earn a small margin every purchase. So that's basically quite clear and it's for us quite good to somehow predict the growth in the next years. So that's that's a good and strong foundation we have. And then the second thing, and that's to become bitty honest. I think that's we are thinking about what could be have an edge the secret source and of course everybody's talk about data, but it's not that easy to make money out of data. Everybody yere data, of course, but you need to have a proposition out of those data, and our proposition is that we have the most accurate dator. And it's quite interesting because there are discussions like Fogam with navigation system provider. They of course route you from A to B, but they need to have, they rely on accurate dator and we're to get those data. You won't find the database currently Europe and we try to become and this declaration, this database that has the most accurate data points and all the other inside. That's quite funny. We are currently, of course, working together with like charge put operators to basically let them work with our power users and ask for feedback on the charging station. That's quite as again data. It's again a data game. So basically, the operators of the charge points your how we uses, how of them improve the user experience? They're exactly that's quite a straight to see. So if you compare with the normal guest line use case, you have a cashier there right see as she she can check the the station, the gas station several times a day, but you won't happen for changing. That's quite interesting, and so we asked, or you this, to provide exactly those data. HMM, I see. I think now I start to understand what you guys are actually and how you guys going to make money. For everybody who who's not familiar with Germany, because...

...it's seventy five percent of our audience is a broad payback here in Germany is a customer loyalty system. When you go grocery shopping or some where, they always ask you for the payback card and then you scan it, you get rewards points and then you can redeem them, for example for shopping for special items. Yada, Yada, Yada. Vouscher's twenty years shopping voucher for the same store or something like this. Plus, I do believe they're also like a couponing thing. They're like double points, trouble points, twenty time points, on whatever. So they also make challengers. You guys are also going to make challenges like this. It's a good keyword. So we have our own section in our current APP state. This is called challenges, and it's quite easy, because a challenge for us is a task for our community and the task to be, of course, shop at this store, shop at the weekend, shop via black week, or provide data points or rate the charging station providers. So it's challenges for as the kind of a kind of a summary and umbrella for activities we assigned to the uses. But of course, what we do see is that ecommerce runs like crazy. But you always have this thing where we're discussing key ECOMMERCE. We really need to make sure that it's kind of sustainable, and what we do is that we offset every every transaction from our budget. Basically, we have corporations with one dollar, one dollar glasses, where we basically donate money to like third country that they can afford glasses they are, that they can afford project. So this is quite important for us. Having this is this is basically called our DNA. So it's not just written on our home page. Screen washing really basically donate from our revenue, yeah, from a will turn over to those, to those, yeah, companies improvised like like Rack Crows or World Food Program basically, and so we do a lot of challenges from vary as, basically categories on our platform. You guys, have been caused the mice and more of the new mobility. Would you agree to that statement? A yes, so I think of course it is still is this one pillar, and now we're shifting towards the data. So I think we could say we are the kind of mind some more paybacks, sustainable payback for for immobility, plus the four square for for charging. I think then we have it sort of the best of both worlds, basically, and we use this rebot mechanism to really get the user engagement. So therefore that's the glue or secret source. Maybe could be well, and when you've been talking, I had to learn more current events in mind that would like to ask you about. First, you talk about plaque Friday. I'm you mostly present here in Germany, and did you really see any effect on Black Friday? Do the numbers go up like crazy, or is it like a little bumping online shopping? Here? It was like crazy to become videos. So it was. Yeah, so, and it's quite interesting to see because we see that that that the users, they they love to be with us with this, of course, with this, with this strong sustainable wish we have. Of course they could go for four payback or others, but they decide. Okay, I spent my money with in charge and and during black week we donated a couple of thousand euros to two companies. Basically, so we put away from our turn over something, and this is quite clear. So we have a click quite clear on the home page and and they use that a way promote the shops and for the next year, apart from black week, we were thinking about Green Week.

You're so really focusing on the sustainable shops and it's not that easy to find such. So I think we have more than payback when I can compare it in here, more sustainable on our shops than PABEC has. And it's quite hard to find those of court sustainable e commercials like Avocado store, where you can really get your clothed the sustainable cloths or other things. And so the net next logical step would be focusing more on those bricks and mortar stores. Smaller stores could be chained, pushing, let me say, the local, local stores and local partnerships. The second very recent question is all o. We recalling this. On December Eight, two thousand and twenty one and all of shawls was sworn in his new position Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany today. What would you expect from his chancellorship? You Think Green Mobility will get another boost? It has to. I think we have this, and I want to be too dramatic, but it's this least less chance. And you can be drafting, don't worry. No, and and I think it's getting darker here. I think I just need to turn my let on, but I do it after, after answering. So yet with the Times. No, it's, it's it. I was quite somehow under fire during this election. So it was really like, okay, whom to elect? What I in the programs? What can we do? What should we do? And I think we see in frank would be of the volts a party elected. I think that's quite instant to see and I think it's clear we need to achieve this one five degree, degree goals. Definitely we need to shift the industry. That's quite sure. And I think what we currently can see is that there will be a kind of boost and we see that Germany is currently it's not the front one, I yet, if it comes to immobility, but we are kind of overtaking other other, other state. That's quite impressive. Impressive to see. We have grants for new cars, we have grants for the private box, note how the Duro are you can you can get for the producate a box. Then taxation exemption, etc. CRAC CRAC, and those things will be here, will be extended soon. And then there are big programs, national programs, to increase the infrastructor the charging infrastructure basically. So this is something of calls for for my small Cosmos charging immobility. I definitely see that there will be that. They will be a push from the government. Then, of course, if it comes to digitalization, we have to of course improve there as well. And then, many, many, I think we can extend this to to other to other sectors as well. But I think this, this screen, as foundation, this is we don't need to discuss what I think. This is so quite clear that we need to really do something and and have this this strong shifts in Germany, but of course kind of in Europe as well, and I hope that we could be kind of, let me say, being in front, run a position, pushing other other nations, and of course we have this global situation as well. So it's I think it's going to be a very big task for the new government for for the next four years. A lot of things to do, but I think we have a nice change and the pandemic was a kind of yeah, it made transparent. Yeah, so we're we're tasks lying and so I think there's a good chance really to now make the step forward. And Yeah, and and and set the stage for the next decades and for the next generations to come. Here. Lots of tasks ahead for you. How are you funding those tasks? You right now in our...

...interview because we found a beginning of November and news piece that you raised a seat round for an undisclosed amount. As we try to put you a little bit before the interview, but you didn't tell me how much. So we say, I'm disclosed amount, but seven digits. You. So you currently are funded by I assume first thing that bit woods trapping. Then v See Funding Sea drant. You currently look for other investors. So currently we are funded. So far. So the first fund we got was was basically from from past the seat, the initial seat, and then we now extended with with Helen benches from Finland. So it's quite nice to have them on board, reflecting the nordics. So so they are quite let me say that they quite far ahead with digitalization immobility. So they have some nice insights we can really make use of. Were beneficial, and so we just closed this seat. Plus that enables us and gives us really the chance to to make it happen out, to really go and move forward on the scale path we define. That we really worked on quite hard in the last month. And this is this this data thing, right, so this is really becoming this four square and made use of rewards. So that's the task we assigned. We just had a volt meeting a couple weeks ago. Well, we just shared this this vision, our tasks or our okay, I'll see other objectives and quey results, and this is where we really want to focus in the next I would say days and months. So instead of its libit short term. So we currently working on that and of course they are. I think there will be a golden future for this, for the whole emobility market globally. So yeah, and then we need to see, but currently we're not searching for other so by now investments. But I think I learned it can get fast, or can it quite fast, that we are to be completely hounced. There are asking us they are will, let me say, request from other vcs. I think that's that's been for sure, and of course we keep discussing and and and I think someone maybe pre selecting in our minds what could be losting for the next round. But I think first of all we need to scale quite hard and we will bottom light for the vcs. If I want to get into serious a reach out now, talking little bit more about your partners. I've found, for example, that you are a partner with DB bike, meaning the bicycle rental service of German train operator Deutsche Bahn, Huber Green and many more. What type of partners you currently looking for? Like breaking motor retailers? Are the ECOMMERCE shops like he school to provide us? What are you looking for? Yeah, so Maine, maybe two sides. So we are obviously it's happy to find new shopping partners. So News, news sources for bonus points, for uses, and this could be ecommerce in brackets. Some of sustainable would be nice. This could be brick and mortar. We have some good discussions there as well. And then it's always about, let me say, burning the kilometer. So where to burn those kilometers and't that's mainly those there. They are two specific words in this ecosystem. One in CPO Chart Point operator. That's basically that's the gas station provide up, to put it pretty simple, like the all of charging it. Of course, all they couldly transforming to immovidity as well. So those partners on on a Europe scale, on European scale, like embw is a very big one. We just close the corporation in Germany, MINUVA here in Frankfort, those partners who are really a providing access to charging stations. That's the main target. So one side ECOMMERCE or commerce for earning, and the...

...other side is really for burning those kilometersn't collecting those Datas. L again, we may add for our audience outside of Germany, as ill is one of the big change for gasoline stations here in Germany. I'm talking about here in Germany. In which countries are you currently available? Yes, so, currently we have six European markets. It's the DA region, so Germany, Austra, Switzerland and we have Belgium, net and Listenstein at a list. Yeah, list, just like not yet. It's the same with Benelux, Major Netherlands, lacks. The work will follow. Food, I would say, and UK we just launched. And for UCES, creol you we are in the show, in the go to strategy for the next markets, and there's there's lots of going on in the market. So for sure we will launch our APP, and I think this could be a small teaser or spoiler. We are currently working a rebuilding our APP. So there will be a new end charge, a B TOC APP by quarter to next year and with that APP we will launch this APP to to a broader market set. So all the nodics, of course, for sure, like Italy, France, Spain, those markets will be addressed by by next year. You are currently headquartered in Frankfort. That's why we talking, sponsored by invest in Hassan. What do you like and dislike about Frankfort as an impreneur and what would be your wishes for politics? Yes, yeah, frank what is is quite nice. And maybe I'm just turning my light on. So just to SACON, because I'm seeing that it's getting darker and darker now. It should be maybe a little bit better, hopefully for the for the video records. So yeah, frank what is quite nice. So I used to live in still get immune a couple of years. And basically, frank put is, of course, if it comes to syntake, it's, I think, the place to be and for us it was a quite good decision to be here because we don't have these hard competitions for for the good brains as as we would have in Burnin, for example, that if they have developer stay, I don't know, I think wouldn't stay for more than six months or twelve months with your company. So in here it's quite more is not that hectic and it's not that hectic style of place. This is what I like in Frankfurt. First, port in the second point. Now, for me, as I'm mainly as I'm a salesman basically, so I'm I used to travel a lot and I will be traveling more and it's quite nice. I'm living in Bocknheim and it's just ten minutes to the central station and I'm just taken icee. It's quite nice sustainable transport and it's it's from a from a European perspective. You can you can go to Amsterdam, you can go to Munich or Berlin, Hamburg. It's quite easy from here, from Frankfort. So it's quite quite good located. This is what I really like. So what I the dislike, and they're a big dislike, and this is somehow the the kind of fingerprint. We don't have charging in the structure in here. So we are kind of the worst CDs in whole Germany. It's quite it's really unbelievable. It's quite crazy. Nothing happens and if I'm searching for charting station near Bockinghem, I think I can just count it on one hand. It's not more than five inner in a circle of I would say twenty kilometers. Fifty to twenty kilometers. You won't find charting stations in here, and this is, I think, something due to complex regulations and such. I really can't find the the reason why, because there are lots of things going on. We see other cities, for example, like Hamburg. They have one thousand four hundred charging points. To compare with Frankfort, I think we have one hundred fifty charling points. So it's really it's kind of crazy. If you if you would like to go electrically in Frankfort and you can't change at home, you won't do it because you can't reacharge your car as easy as it is.

So either you can charge it home, and I can't because I have this duplex scarages. It's quite quite expensive to to go for war works and I can't charge it work. So there's no possibility for me now to recharge a current. This is something, of course, we need to think about with a yeah, with the players, with the stakeholders. Me How to fix that? I think. Of course, there's someone ounced in the press there will be charting stations, but I can't see really like like where they could build and it seems to be delayed by months and months and months and months, and if you google it you find a lot of articles on that. Even one or two years ago, frank would is leaking behind. Frank with leking behind, and it's one or two years ago and I'm questioning myself, why isn't? But is there nothing happening now? So, yeah, I think this would be my dislike. Yeah, we need to work on of course I can, I can offer my help and but we need to work on that because otherwise, as we got, we would get a problem with here achieving this this ratio of electric vehicle till friend foot we may add that Brocknheim is one of the boards of Frankfort with a population little bit of buff for the thousand people that said, Simon, it was just a pleasure talking to you. We now recorded more than forty one minute. Well, that might be a new record. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was an awesome interview. All the best, and let us guys know when your new APP will be available. We will, we will share it on our social media channels and update this interview here. Oh, just great. So it was quite a feature, quite nice talk with you, very fruitful and yeah, let's, let's say in touch and let's let's rock immobility. Thank you. Have a great day. By Bye your fir, Byebye job. That's all. Folks find more news streams, events and interviews at www dot start of rent. That Hio, remember Shry is car.

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